I think a billion rounds of applause are needed for this comment. I also agree with James' world view and would like tolerance and inclusion - but you can't mandate it. You become the thing you're trying to oppose. What James did in his discussion with me - and why it was so useful, is that he attacked me like I was an extremist even though we want the same thing.

I also want progressive policies and inclusion and am generally a lefty, but not at all costs. That's why I dissented to James' arguments (and was attacked) I am first and foremost a liberal - and that means genuinely liberal, rather than the faux-liberalism that has sprung up in many people. I don't have a problem with progressives and their arguments are ones I generally agree with - but when they're mandated, or done via threat of ostracism they aren't liberal arguments they're totalitarian.

The realisation that everything is grey is one that comes far too late for most people and sometimes doesn't come at all. Rambling is always welcome because you're externalising your thought process - and it seems like a good road to travel at this point in your life. You might not reach the same conclusions as me on things, and you don't have to, but at least you're reading both sides of an argument - and that's the point of keeping an Argumentative Penguin around. :o)