Argumentative Penguin
2 min readSep 12, 2022

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Let me back you away from the outrage cliff a little bit and see if we can find some common principles on which a reasonable discussion can be had. It's clear you have a lot of feelings and those are fine - but they aren't the best position from which to argue from.

First up, the opposite of not fighting a decision is that this girl had zero control over any of the decisions being made about her. What you're arguing here is that her views shouldn't have been sought because she had nothing to add into the process. I'd argue that's not true... what she added into the process was a very clear desire not to be separated from her Dad.

Now we can argue there were very good reasons why she might've needed to be separated from her Dad. That wasn't my case to make but to implement this without stopping to ask her would've been disempowering. There's a reason why I said this was the most 'disturbing' argument I ever made - and that's because it conflicted with my moral code. I had no desire to see her put back into an abusive situation, but she lacked the ability to understand why she was removed. In this situation, she should be entitled to have an opinion and to have that opinion taken seriously.

We also can't discount that everyone was wrong. In which case the child was removed from a loving relationship and nobody but me sought her views. It could be that she lacked capacity, it could be there was no abuse. Unless someone asks her, the state has committed a heinous crime. If your child was removed from your care on suspicion of you being an abuser, wouldn't you want someone to talk to them/ask them - even if they didn't have the capacity to understand fully.

And my final argument.... because of my intervention and taking her views into account, she got to see her Dad more than she would've done if nobody had asked. And if she is able to go back and understand the detailed notes I kept, she will understand this was what she wanted (at the time) and her views were taken seriously and argued for in a meaningful way. I didn't do a bad job because that isn't in the Penguin nature - that isn't to say I wouldn't have needed some serious help if I'd achieved what she wanted. I would've done. That would be a difficult thing to live with.

Ultimately my moral position is this - everyone is entitled to make choices about their own life - and if their voice isn't empowered enough, someone should step in and amplify it so they can be a meaningful participant in decisions. That's a moral position you evidently disagree with - and that's fine and I appreciate you're angry about it so I'll overlook the ad-hominems as the passionate voice of a parent. :o)

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Argumentative Penguin
Argumentative Penguin

Written by Argumentative Penguin

Playwright. Screenwriter. Penguin. Fan of rationalism and polite discourse. Find me causing chaos in the comments. Contact: argumentativepenguin@outlook.com

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